BY DAVID SERVER | CountingDown had the privilege of sitting down today with director Guillermo del Toro ("Blade 2") to discuss his eagerly anticipated pet project "Hellboy", which was finally greenlit last week by Revolution Studios.

CountingDown: So  first of all, you obviously have been fighting like crazy to get this movie made. What is it about the story of Hellboy that makes you so passionate?

Guillermo del Toro: This is the only comic book in my adult life that when I read it, I became as enthusiastic about the next issue, and as eager to see how it continued, as I was when I was a child with comic books. So I think that this will be the first time in my adult life that I actually have a childlike admiration of a super-hero. But I dont think of Hellboy in those terms, I dont think he is a super-hero, but for all intents and purposes, my admiration for him is as big as I had as a child for Spider-Man. Hes my role model! The great thing about Hellboy that escapes most people is that he is the Beast of the Apocalypse, but he is just a regular guy. And thats the main thing to keep in mind, is when doing this entire movie and this character, you have to have Hellboy played like he almost would prefer to be watching TV, and drinking a beer than fighting monsters, like, Oh boy, here we go again, or in his own language, Aw crap! (laughs).

CD: You seem to really enjoy working the concept of family ties and belonging into your work, it was definitely prevalent in Blade 2, and in the draft that I read of Hellboy, it certainly seemed a strong theme thereis that something that you feel is a very important part of the Hellboy mythology?

GdT: Well, I think that the relationship between Professor Broom and Hellboy is very much in that same mold, because eventually Broom is the father of the freaksBroom is the father figure that has collected freaks over the years, but treats them like wonderful children from other worlds. And he doesnt treat them as monsters, he treats them as his own children, his own brood. And I would say that his favorite son, and the one hes more worried about, is Hellboy. And as a father, Im a father of two, I know that one of the main tasks you get as a father, is to worry about your children. And, yknow, you always worry how they will turn out, how they will grow up, will they find happiness in life, and its very touching for me that this is the concern for Broom of this 65 red demon with a stone hand. Yknow, its just beautiful to juxtapose such a sweet human concern with such an inhuman environment, in such a way. And Hellboy is proverbially like Oliver Reed in Curse of the Werewolf, a creature that he tries to keep locked in for his own good. Because, yknow, with the appearance Hellboy has, he cannot go walking down a shopping mall with his girlfriend.

CD: B.P.R.D. Member and Hellboys new aide Agent Myers is a new character not from the comics that you seemed to have added for your personal reasonswas he added for a storytelling standpoint?

GdT: Well, he was added because, number one, in this entire saga in the comic books, there was no point of view for the audience. In Batman, one of the many ways you can go into the story is Vicky Vale, or in the case of Batman: Year One, you can go through Batman and through Gordon. But, yknow, you needed a laymans point of view of this whole story. In a way, Peter Parker is a great character in Spider-Man, because you get the layman turning into the super-hero! But Hellboys not like that, Hellboys origin is so outlandish, and Hellboys very persona is so outlandish, and the notion of a B.P.R.D. is so implausible, that you need someone that is the audiences eyes and ears. And Myers was perfect because I knew that if I didnt do it as a gratuitous character in the screenplay, meaning thats all he does, be the audience, then its a piece of crap. What I wanted to do was ,what if this guy, in being the audience, becomes the third character in a love triangle? And therefore I do a triangulated love story between Hellboy, Liz, and Myers. And I was very interested in the love story, cause I think you need to see Hellboy as a character evolve in the movie, unlike in the comic books where it took him like three or four mini-series to finally leave the B.P.R.D. [Ed. Note: Hellboy left the Bureau at the end of the series The Conqueror Worm]. Yknow, in the movie, you dont have the luxury of a readership that will stick with you even if the character doesnt go through an emotional triumph. And I wanted very much for Hellboy to be dealing with what the fuss is about his nature; everybody is so worried about Hellboy being the Beast of the Apocalypse, except Hellboy. He knows deep inside that hes just a regular guy. And thats his final affirmation in the movie  yes, I was born the anti-Christ (laughs), but I can choose to be a guy!, which is literally the biggest quest a hero can have in a literary form, is to discover that he can vanquish destiny; he can vanquish the Gods. That whatever the outer-spheres, meaning God or the Devil, have planned for that character, this character thwarts and conquers. That goes beyond a fist-fight, or beyond an action scene  that is truly a beautiful thing, and its not very often that you see it in movies nowadays.

CD: Youve mentioned that you would prefer to make the fish-like character of Abe Sapien using CG and puppetry, but youve always been really adamant about having an actor play Hellboy. What is it that you makes an actor necessary for the part of Hellboy, when Abe can be done with effects?

GdT: Well, I think that by the very nature of the way that [Hellboy artist Mike] Mignola has designed him, Abe is a less expressive character. Abe is sort of quirky and funny but in a very dry way, and hes more like the Mr. Spock of the B.P.R.D., so hes the guy that keeps perspective on things. And hes very beautiful to look at! The way I say it, hes the Michelangelos David of Fish-Men. Hes almost like a perfect beautiful representation of the link between humanity and fish. Hes not the creature from the Black Lagoon, whos supposed to inspire horror. This guy is magnetic; he reminds me in his design a little bit of [the Marvel Comics character] the Silver Surfer, because from the angular lines and the sleeknessand I feel that Silver Surfer is one of the few super-heroes that could easily be fully CG. And the same is true for Abehis texture, his movementwe will have an actorand we will have a puppet, and we will have CG, but the dominant aspect of the character will be CG. Because I want to represent Mignolas drawings perfectly, for one, and that encompasses, for example, separating the eyes just a little too much, and making the waist a little too thin, and yknow, doing the things that you couldnt achieve with a suit. And on the other hand, Hellboy is *all* about emotion. Hellboy is a guy that gets REALLY fucking angry. And he screams (quoting the comics), Lady, I cut you some slack cause youre a mythological figure, but Im gonna beat the crap outta you! Yknow, and on the other hand, Hellboy needs to emote, and needs to be able to get a close upand I dont think emotion is achievable with human-like hyper-real characters yetyou can do it on Shrek, because basically the architecture of the faces is totally outlandish. But Hellboy is human enough that youve got to do it with an actor, and I think Ron Perlman is perfect for it. Now, that said, we have some shit in store for the fans, that will once again, I will try to push the boundaries of CG a little further, and I think that we did that with Blade 2 with the Reaper mouths. Yknow, that or some of the well-done CG fights in Blade; not the ones you noticed! (laughs) But the ones where you did not noticeweve been experimenting. We have about 6 months of R&D on Hellboy, and what were gonna do is were gonna have Hellboywhen he is shirtless and walking around, it will not be human. I mean, people will leave a wet-stain in their fuckin seats. Theyre just gonna crap in their pants, I tell you that. And the way were going at it, the way were planning to work on it, how were gonna blend puppetry, CG, make-up, and everything to make little FXthings that seem to be throwaway, but that will convince you that Hellboy is real. Because what I dont want is I dont want Ron Perlman in make-up and thats ityou need to have at least two or three moments of reality where you realize, that this guyhes not human!

CD: On that note, youve said in interviews that you want Hellboy to be approximately 650 lbslike a gorilla. How are you going to achieve that?

GdT: This is one of the things that unfortunately, we couldnt do on the movie if we wanted to make it for $60 millionif we had had the budget that I originally proposed, which was $75 Million, that was one of the things we wanted to do. I wanted to have, basically, a smaller Mighty Joe Young. But the way we have it, hes gonna have to be 65 or so. And as for his weight, well, that stone hand is very heavy (laughs).

CD: For casting, we know that Ron Perlman (Blade 2) is in as Hellboy, and all the fans are really excited about that, and earlier you had mentioned that you were sort of interested in maybe Steve Buscemi or Kevin Spacey types for Abe.

GdT: Well, it depends on the final personality that we come up with in the animationif its a more quirky, more edgy Abe, then it will be Steve Buscemibut the ideal voice for the Abe of the comics is, without a doubt, Kevin Spacey. But, yknow, lets say that in the worst case scenario, Abe is very easy to find a really good voice on an unknown actorhes not a casting coup that merits such a huge expenditure. If we find out that Kevin Spacey is a big fan of the comic and he wants to do it for the money, then well do it. But, yknow, Im not gonna spend $2 million in hiring Kevin Spacey that Id rather spend on more special effects. But the rest of the cast, Ive been thinking possibly Jean Reno or Gary Oldman for Rasputin. I was thinking that a good idea for Ilsawell, Ilsa is easy to cast. But for Professor Broom Ive been thinking Ian Holm, or John Hurtthat kind of actor. Just a second(answers the phone)

GdT: That was Ron Perlman.

CD: Haha!

GdT: Anyways, as for casting Kroenen, which is mostly silent, Im gonna cast a really good dancer and a really good martial artist to do that. But you know, the rest of the cast is pretty open.

CD: Like Liz?

GdT: Well, Liz is very hard to castLiz can go so many ways, but it would be too crazy to anticipate which way Im gonna go. SoIll go with an actress who can deliver, cause its a very complex character. But  who knows, yknow. Its a much more open issue, the rest of the cast.

CD: How large of a role will Hellboy artist and creator Mike Mignola play in the overall production and design of the movie?

GdT: Well, number one, Mike is gonna be an Associate Producer. And I offered him that position for a good fee and all that, to have him be involved as much as he wants. Yknow, as little as he wants, hes gonna be involved in pre-production, design, and then a little bit on the shoot, and a little bit on the post. But my offer to him, and he is seriously considering it, is that he stays involved through the entire movie. That he basically is by my side in pre-production, by my side in the scouting, by my side in the designing. This is a universe that was created by Mike Mignola. Whatever we do to alter that universe has to be, number one, to make it really better, and number two, has to be sanctioned by him. Because I, unlike other directors of comic books, that come into the properties and say,  oh ok, well, thats the kids stuff, let me fix it and make it adult, and they end up making all the suits black and put nipples on them or whatever the hell they do. I feel that the world that Mike Mignola has created is a perfect ecosystem. And to fuck with a perfect ecosystem, youre gonna have God next to you (laughs). And, yknow, I want God next to me! And the alterations of the Hellboy suit, or the coat and all that, will be minimal. But whatever were doing with that, I assure you will be cooler. And the design of other characters like Abe and Hellboy will remain absolutely faithful to the comic books. Same with Rasputin or KroenenKroenen will be a little more outlandish in this, but essentially, you are going to not get a comic book movie that you dont recognize as a comic book. You will get Mike Mignolas Hellboy.

CD: Are there any other comic book artists hat you want specifically for the art design team for Hellboy?

GdT: Well, my hope is that the team will consist of Mike Mignola, TyRuben Ellingson who designed some of the stuff on Blade, Wayne Barlowe who designed some of the stuff on Blade and will design some of the creatures; and then Richard Corbin would be my ideal addition to this team, to bring some of his Cthulu monster sensibility for the flashy tentacled monsters that inhabit the other side, yknow? And I think that all in all, what were gonna get is a really close to the comic book feeling. The lighting and the color pattern and everything will be very faithful to the comic. Already on Blade, some of the scenes were very Mignola-esque, because I wanted to use it as a dress rehearsal for Hellboy. This will be ten times more, and we are not the Hollywood standard of a huge budget movie. We are a mid-budget movie, 60 million bucks and thats it, whereas compared with Spider-Man or the Batman franchise, youre talking about near the hundreds.

CD: I noticed that you had references to the Hellboy stories Pancakes and The Corpse in the script  will there be any new comic book references made in the upcoming third draft of the script?

GdT: Well, if I can, theres gonna be a lot of new stuff here and there, but its hard to anticipate right nowI read the advance copy of [the upcoming Hellboy comic book mini-series] The Third Wish

CD: Oh! How is it?

GdT: Oh, its a masterpiece. Truly truly truly beautiful. And I just feel that its a shame to me that I cannot incorporate, for example, Roger the Homunculus. Because its a great character, but its too expensive to put that many monsters in the first feature. I mean, 60 millionyou get to shoot the Mexican with Brad Pitt and Julie Roberts (laughs). And were trying to do this huge movie. And just bear in mind, Blade was a $54 million movie, and at the end it looked like a $75 or $80 million movie. And we are trying to do a $95 million dollar movie for 60. Hellboyif Hellboy was selling as much copies as Spider-Man, or Daredevil, itd be a $90 million movie. But since its a very acquired taste, and its kind of a cult comic book, we are given $60 million, but were given $60 million with the right actor. Which is much better than telling the fans were gonna get $90 million and Tom Cruise is gonna play Hellboy.

CD: So lets say that Hellboys a huge hit, as Im sure it will be  are you game for going back and making Hellboy 2?

GdT: Oh yeah! That is not out of the question. What I think would be ideal is for Hellboy to actually spin off into an animated series for cable, cause I think that the best way to translate Mignola is still animation. But animation for a feature that has no singing mules and musical numbers and crap is hardly affordable. At one point, we pushed really hard to make this feature CG. But there are certain things that you cannot do still with CG, and thats human emotion. And we dropped that argument, and I think that right now the best incarnation for Hellboy that is feasible is this: a really great, kick-ass comic book movie. But eventually, to get the true craziness of the action that Mignola does, the ideal thing would be to spin off into a cable series.

CD: Do you know when and where youre planning to start the Hellboy shoot?

GdT: We are going to shoot in Prague in the Czech Republic, once again. And well start in the first quarter of 2003.

CD: So based on that, what do you think we can expect for the release date?

GdT: The ideal thing would be Christmas, cause I would love the poster to say, THIS CHRISTMASHELL IS COMING TO TOWN (laughs), or THIS CHRISTMAS, LOOK FOR ANOTHER RED GUYwhatever. It would be a great Christmas movieChristmas the Anti-Christ is born. Its more probable we will see it like March 2004, something like that.

CD: Youve called Hellboy your thematic autobiography  could you expand on that statement?

GdT: Well, the number one is the fact that you are born, or your nature is one thing, and you, by your own will, make something different out of itits something that happened to me as a child and as a teenager. Yknoweverything that everyone told me was impossible to do, and what my place in the world was, I rebelled against. And whatever I am today, I am by my own design. The place where I was born, which is the provinces of Mexico, is a completely [unintelligible] to do film. The type of film I wanted to do, which is horror movies and strange complex FX movies, was the exact wrong type of movies to do in Mexico. And even in more personal aspects of my life, I was born to not achieve, or not to do things that I wanted. And I rebelled against geography and birth, and all that stuff, and I became whatever I have become. People may like it or not, but its of my own design and Im super happy with it! Its like, some people tell me are you not worried to be pigeon-holed into being a horror director, and I say, Why?! Thats exactly what it took me all these years to be! Yknow, and I feel that Hellboy, being born an infernal weapon, an infernal device, he decides to be something different. And I think that the will to be something different, and to be something good and to be himself, is a great story. And also, the love story with Liz, is in many ways the way I view my own personal love story with the woman that is now my wife. I mean, I think that its great for two human beings to recognize that in a tale, theres more often not a beauty and a beast but a beast and a beast! (Laughs) And, yknow, to embrace the nature of each other is great. So all these deep meanings for me will be wrapped in what I hope will be just a kick-ass movie. Be not worried, it will not be a philosophical treatise, and it will not be Sex and the City with monsters, it will be something very very entertaining.

CD: What other projects are you working on other than Hellboy?

GdT: The status of Mephistos Bridge is that I am acquiring the rights in order to be able to put it off for the shoot of Hellboy, but hopefully be able to shoot it next. Then Im writing a feature film in Spanish to go back and do something in Spanish after Hellboy or after [Mephistos Bridge]. Then, Montecristo, which is a very cherished project, is put in the back burner for a few years because of the Jim Caviezel Monte Cristo movie, which came out before we did and therefore destroys possibilities of Montecristo right now. Then, At the Mountains of Madness, which is gonna be the movie of my life, I start writing this summer while Im prepping Hellboy, and it will be probably a screenplay by the time Hellboy is in theaters. From that moment on, expect a year or two (laughs) to go back and forth on budget and visibilities, its a very very complex movie. And the idea we have is to, for the first time in the history of movies, is do a high-budget adaptation of Lovecraft. On that movie, my plan is to involve Corbin, Mignola, Wayne Barlowe, and Mobius as conceptual designers for the movie, and it will be completely faithful to Lovecraft. Then, theres an adaptation of a comic book called Coffin, its actually very goodits right now on the screenplay stage, were starting the screenplay. Its being written by Tim McCanlies, the guy who wrote Iron Giant, and he has a very good grasp on it. And soon enough, well have a screenplay and its off to the races. Then we have an adaptation of Katsushiro Otomo's Domu, which is still in negotiations after 4 years, that goes to prove that if theres anything weirder than American lawyers its Japanese lawyers (laughs).

CD: What about Blade 3?

GdT: Sadly we were discussing this just yesterdaythey wanna go with Blade 3 right when Im gonna go with Hellboy, and I very much wanted to return for a third one, but it doesnt look like the calendars are gonna match.

CD: That pretty much wraps it up for me. Thanks again so much for everything!

GdT: Alright man - Stay in touch!